In my opinion, i believe that gay couples should not be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children. Here are my reasonings.
1) The children's pschological health will be adversely affected during the growing up stage. They have to endure unceasing teases from peers for having gay parents. Research have shown that these children grows up to be unsociable and more withdrawn.
2)Growing up with gay parents also questions their sexual orientation. As children tends to emulate their parents, their sexual orientation may fashion after their parents who are suppose to be their role models
These are two of the many reasons why gay couples should not be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children. Yes, there are countries where being gay is a norm, however, if nothing is done to curb the increasing gay activities, the gay population will rise over time and it will risk diminishing the world's population in years to come.
On the contrary to Marcus's opinion, I strongly agree that gay couples should be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals.
By disallowing gay couples to adopt children, we are denying their rights. Besides, research has shown that every individual has the tendency to love and to care. Therefore on Marcus's first point, I beg to differ. One's orientation does not determine their parental abilities. They do have the right to display love for their children. Furthermore, who says a family with two dads/moms be tantamount to a not complete or 'normal' family?
Prior to the above, some may question the possibility of children becoming homosexual under the influence of gay parents. However, one's sexual orientation is not only determined by their family's upbringing.
For instance, Ellen Lee DeGeneres,an American stand-up comedian, actress, and currently the Emmy Award-winning host, is known for her open homosexuality. But she was not raised by homosexual parents, thus bringing out the fact that not only children from gay parents would turn out gay.
Bottom line being, gay couples should not be denied of their rights to adopt children. The children's mental health should not entirely be based on the upbringing of the family. There are children that turned gay under heterosexuals parents as well, so why not give the homosexuals a chance?
I am for having gay parents the same adoption rights as straight parents. Jenn took my arguments right out of my mouth, so I'll just have to state new ones =(
I shall talk about the message sent.
If we continue to restrain homosexual couples from the joys of parenthood, the government is inevitably legitamising the exclusion of homosexuals from society. Why? because if they continue to retrain homosexuals from the very fundamental right to have children, the government is implicitely saying that "this segment of people are social freaks and we don't trust them with our parentless children".
Can you imagine if this message sent to society continues to persist? The government will effectively legitamize the poor treatment of homosexuals and thus, stagnant gay rights movements.
All in all, I think that this debate should center around the children. If there is a willing person, even if that person is gay, wanting badly to experience the joys of parenthood with a child that has had that opportunity snatched away from him, I am all for it. I think it is only right that every child gets to experience the love of a parent.
i agree 100% with Jenn. Homosexuals should not be given any different rules from heterosexuals. If heterosexuals get to adopt children, then why not homosexuals? By disallowing them the chance to a proper family, there are alot of adverse side effects: 1)We are isolating homosexuals even further then they already are. 2) We would be in a digressing society instead of a progressing one, rolling back into the very conservative society that we once were. We will not be allowing for modernisation and the acceptance of all people as human beings, living harmoniously in one community. 3)We are not allowing orphan children in a dire need for a real family a chance at a real life, thus increasing the numbers of children who grow up as orphans.
Also, i think Marcus's worry of questioning the sexual orientaion of the child is unnecessary. In the modernisation and development of science in this world, why is he so worried about our species going extinct? If the kids grow up wanting to be gay, then we should just let them. It is their preference. Howeever, it is a hasty generalisation to say that kids who grow up with gay parents are going to doubt their sexual orientation. Why can;t kids who grow up with gay parents grow up to be straight?
Therefore i think it is unnecessary worry and that gay couples should DEFINITELY be allowed the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children.
Firstly, i would like to address what Jenn had mentioned. She misinterprets my 1st point as i did not state that "One's orientation determines their parental abilities". In general, homosexuals are often being ostracized by heterosexuals. Gay parents will implicate their child as people will tease these children for having gay parents. People stereotype homosexuals as abnormal because in the past, homosexual is categorized as a mental disorder. Generations grow up associating homosexual as a mental illness. Although the newer generation we belong to are cultured to know otherwise. If people are cultured to have such mentality, how can we blame them for not entrusting children to gay people?
Jenn too mentioned that there are cases in which heterosexual parents raise up gay children. Yes homosexual people originated from heterosexual parents, otherwise where do they come from? i would like to reiterate one of my points. Children tend to emulate their parents. They are what they are exposed to. If their parents inculcate in them that homosexuality is a norm, won't they risk turning homosexual as it is a norm to them? There are factors, tons of them that determine one's sexual orientation, but upbringing is a factor that plays a major role.
Let me quote from Cheryl “If we continue to restrain homosexual couples from the joys of parenthood, the government is inevitably legitamising the exclusion of homosexuals from society. Why? because if they continue to retrain homosexuals from the very fundamental right to have children, the government is implicitely saying that "this segment of people are social freaks and we don't trust them with our parentless children". If I am not wrong, what she put forth is known as slippery slope. The society is trying their utmost best to accept homosexuality. Asking to adopt children is outrageously crossing the line.
Viha mentioned that we are isolating homosexuals even further then we already are. And YES! This simple shows that the society is still not ready for this. If we narrow our scope to Singapore, we ARE STILL a conservative society. We have to give people time to accept what is in their terms “abnormal”.
In this discussion i believe we are discussing whether gay couples should be allowed to adopt children just like heterosexuals. There are countries that have already legalize homosexual couples adopting children, however we are looking at the picture in general. If you are interested in knowing the adoption laws and rights, here is the link http://www.adoptionservices.org/adoption/adoption_laws_rights.htm The adoption rights listed in this site is for heterosexual parents. This is the same rights gay parents are fighting to get hold of.
I feel that gay couples should have the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children. Homosexuals are already being ostracised in our society. Why make matters worse by not giving them the same legal rights?
There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents. They are as capable to take care of children as heterosexuals. Good parenting is not influenced by their sexual orientation, but by a parent's ability to create a loving and nurturing home (an ability that does not depend on whether a parent is gay or straight). I feel that given this opportunity, homosexuals will treasure it well and will be able to raise up responsible and successful children who can impact the society.
Therefore, I feel that homosexuals should not be denied of their legal rights to adopt children because they will also be able to do good by providing a loving home for orphans.
I agree strongly with what jenn, cheryl and viha has stated above.
In my opinion, i do not think that the environment that a person grew up in could turn that person gay. Like the example jenn mention, Ellen Degeneres, many homosexuals come from hecterosexual families. The upbringing doesn't affect the sexual orientation of a person. I believe, a person is born with his/her sexual orientation. Except, it takes time to discover if you are bi/gay/lesbian.
I think, if we deny the same legal rights to homosexuals when adopting children, we are just (i quote viha on this) "isolating them even further". Portraying gender bias against them. I do think that we should put ourselves in their shoes, and try to understand how much confusion they could have been through, how much suffering and torture they might feel inside when they havent came out of the closet, and if they did, how much judgement they face from the "straight" public.
Besides, these 'gay' people just want their own children. When they cant produce their own, because of the simple reason,they are gay. Why cant we let them adopt children? These children lost their parents at very young ages, and if theres a couple, be it straight or gay, why not give the orphans a chance to experience family love? Wouldnt we be denying these orphans more opportunities in getting a family?
I feel that gay couples should be given the legal rights to adopt children. However, I think that gay couples should not be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children.
Some differences would be that the child must agree to the adoption. At the same time, the child must be matured enough to understand why their parents behave differently and decide whether they can face the teasing and pressure from friends. The gay couple must undergo observation to ensure that they are prepared to adopt the child.
In this way, it would reduce the difficulties in the upbringing of the child. Both the adopted child and the couple would not be hurt too.
i agree fully with zixin that there may be a need for some extra precautions put in place to see if the homosexual couple are fit to be parents. But they SHOULD not and MUST not be ostracised just because they prefer someone of the same gender!
On the point Marcus made about Singapore being a conservative society, i only have one thing to say: The society is NEVER going to change. No-one is going to suddenly wake up one morning and say, "Hey, you know what, i suddenly feel like accepting gays for who they are!". Noone is going to do this. Therefore, it is up to the government to take the first step, and show the community that "Hey, you know what, its about time we considered gays as part of our community, and therefore as your leader, i'm going to start with me!" The government has a responsibility and duty to take care of ALL its citizens, no matter sexual orientation. One way they can show that they are REALLY doing their job is to accept homosexuals for who they are and give them normal legal rights, just like everyone else. Like Cheryl said, not giving them this right just sends the message that we are purposely excluding them from the rest of our community. Doing this would CLEARLY show the lack of responsibility on the part of the government.
Like Shirley said, "There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents. They are as capable to take care of children as heterosexuals. Good parenting is not influenced by their sexual orientation, but by a parent's ability to create a loving and nurturing home (an ability that does not depend on whether a parent is gay or straight)."
On a side note, for some reason, i find Marcus to be fighting a one-man battle against the rest of our class! Hahaha... sorry Marcus...
I do not think that gay couples should be allowed to adopt children.
While it is true that gay people sometimes come from heterosexual parents, from studies, it has shown that they are the way they are because of certain events that occur, for example, hanging around homosexual friends or relatives from a young age, or being sexually abused. It can also be said that children who come from homosexual parents are more LIKELY to be become homosexual as well, because of the increased influence at home. As Marcus has mentioned earlier, all children tend to emulate their parents. We did not learn to eat or drink without trying to copy our parents. That said, our knowledge of what is right, what is wrong and what is the normal way of life is often taught by our parents. If a parent does drugs and drinks alcohol often, a child may also grow up to believe that such things are alright. What will a child think when he or she sees his male parent exchanging intimacies with another male parent? That it is fine, it is alright, it is how life should be, when in fact it is going against nature.
There is a reason why only sex between a male and a female can produce a child. If nature had meant for gays to have children, wouldn’t they also be equipped with the sexual organs to be able to do so? To this day, even the best of medical technology cannot perform an operation to enable gay couples to produce children.
Gay couples may want to enjoy the joys of parenthood – but adoption does not only involve the parents. It involves the adopted child as well – and I think all chances should be given to the child to grow up in a normal core family unit. That said, can any of us say that a child growing up with gay parents will have an entirely NORMAL family unit? Can you imagine calling a male parent “Mom?”
People have argued that we should allow gay couples to adopt children because we are supposed to be a progressive society. However, I would also like to add that there is nothing wrong with tradition. Our ‘progressive’ society has only brought about more violence and wrongdoings in this world, for example, legalizing abortion because a woman has the RIGHT to what she wants to do with her body. Going against what nature has decreed is not progress; rather, it is destruction on one’s core values.
To end off, I shall ask a simple question – would any of you rather be brought up by gay parents, or straight parents?
homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children but from a case to case basis.
we cannot deny the fact that letting homosexuals adopt children is negative for the child psychologically by having a family that does not have the stereotypical mom and dad. They are also more prone to becoming homosexuals as they probably will have parental approval or support in the area [having parents that are homosexuals themselves.]
Homosexual parents must be prepared to explain to the child, when he is of age, why exactly he has two moms or two dads. This could take an emotional toll on the child as well.
However, If homosexuals can take care of children like normal parents and educate them on an ethical and natural sexuality I do not see why they cannot be parents.
Having tradition for a REASON is all good and well, but clinging on to tradition for tradition sake is unfounded. Gerlynn's basic argument is that we should deny a parent-less child parents and a couple who are unable to have children a child just because tradition dictates so.
Perhaps it is so called 'against nature' for homosexuals to have children, but we must also remember that it was agaisnt nature that we, the people of the world, create pollutants that poison our earth. My point is: Things happen. What we need to do, as a progressive, responsible society, is deal with it effectively.
Since the notion of homosexuals have now become more welcome, we should take a step forward and provide them the right to adopt children, and not only that, the same rights as a heterosexual couple.
All adoptions are done on a case to case basis with very strict criteria that encompasses an income test, a psychological test, repeat interviews and a detailed study of the couples' track records. If homosexual couples can pass such a stringent exam and are comitted to providing the best for their child, I think it is only prudent that we let that child experience the love of a parent, bugger those who want to mock these children, because I think being teased by their peers is less detrimental than a child not being loved properly.
I think that gay couples should be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children.
As what viha has mentioned about the society not being able to accept gay couples, doesn't make gay couples weird. They are afterall still humans and all humans should be treated fairly regardless of their sexual orientation.
What marcus has mentioned about adopted children growing up with gay parents will affect their sexual orientation is not true. Kids growing up in what the society believes is the normal family (Dad+Mum), turn out to be gays. Therefore children are influenced by the society itself and not their parents. Yes, the children are influenced by their parents but not in alot of ways.
Therefore gay couples should enjoy the same fair treatment as heterosexuals. Just because they are of the minority doesn't make them diferent from us.
I feel that homosxual parents should be allowed to adopt children, this is being said because i agree with jenn and viha's comments, in that homosexuals should be given the same right as heterosexuals. After all, in this society, i am sure that everyone would want to be treated fairly. Though, the couple that will be bringing up the child in a evironment, that has the parents as the same gender, i do feel that it is still possible for the couple to still bring up the child normally in a good and holistic environment, just like under heterosexual parents.
Firstly, i would like to state that i am not homophobic. Accepting homosexuals is one issue and giving legal rights to homosexuals to adopt children is a totally different issue.
Viha mentioned that the society is never going to change. i beg to differ. Societies all over the world are taking steps to accept homosexuality whereas in the past, gay activities are viewed as abomination. Societies will change, but change in time gradually.
Cheryl mentioned that "things happen. What we need to do, as a progressive, responsible society, is deal with it effectively." In my opinion, i think that this statement is very irresponsible(sorry cheryl). Things do happen, but if we have in us the power to stop what is going to happen from happening, we should do our utmost best to curb these threats. The earth is plague by pollution, how have humanity effectively solve the problem? We do not loft around and wait for things to happen, and when it does happen, we panic and try to "effectively" solve the problem. We have to forsee such happenings and take precautions.
i agree very much to what zixin had put forth, that the child must agree to the adoption. Its all up to the child. If the child doesnt mind, then go for it. But that being said, put yourselves in that position to choose, would you rather be adopted by gay parents? Or would your actions be contrary to what you have said?
Gay couples should be given less legal rights as compared to heterosexuals when adopting children.
I believe that the environment can shape a child’s sexual orientation, as opposed to Messiah’s “I do not think that the environment that a person grew up in could turn that person gay.” What parents do, there is a tendency for children to follow. So if parents are gay, the child will think gay couples are acceptable, and may in turn turn gays themselves.
Children brought up under gay parents lacks motherly love. Having a mother by a child’s side is very important and is not just having the gay parents to play the mother’s role can do it. However, if a heterosexual male wants to adopt children, being heterosexual, he will not influence his adopted child to become gay.
Nontheless, it is also not fair to deny gay couples' rights to adopt children as they are after all human with human rights. Hence, gay couples can be given legal rights to adopt children, but less as compared to heterosexuals.
Just to state a point. Usually when you adopt a child, how old do you think that child is? I think that child must be at about ages less than one to about maximum 8 or 9. Do you think children at these ages understand the term "homosexuality"? I highly doubt so.
From what marcus and what zixin has put forward. The idea of "letting the child make a decision". I do not think that its ethical. If child doesnt even know what homosexuality means, how can they make a decision?
Also, gerlynn made a point that the upbringing does affect and alter a person's sexuality. I highly doubt that. I stick to my belief that people are born with their sexuality. They cannot choose and change their sexuality over time, and over influences. The example that she used, ie. ( parental drug abuse etc), in this case scenario, i think, does not apply appropriately to this topic about sexuality.
Yes. I do agree that the child might grow up to feel uncomfortable, living in a family with 2 moms, or 2 dads. But i believe, upon growing up and getting loved by these homosexual couples, they would get adjusted, and would come to accept their parents for their differences.
--> Thus people began to doubt about their ablities to provide for their child.
--> In my opinion, this issue is subjective and it depends on every indivual homosexual couples.
The first homosexual grown up from a family similar to ours with a mom and dad.
Risks of gender confusion exists in every family. What matters is the upbringing of the children.
With the right exposure and a balanced lifestyle, it is possible for a child of a homosexual to grow up with his/her own beliefs and values.
Pardon me for my lack of knowlege about the legal rights, but from what i researched there is no unique requirements or tests for homosextual to do their adoption.
Can anyone enlighten me about the "LEGAL RIGHTS" part for the statement?
i agree with Marcus that "Accepting homosexuals is one issue and giving legal rights to homosexuals to adopt children is a totally different issue."
When it comes to adopting children, i believe that other issues comes into play. Bringing up a child is already a chore and much emphasis had been placed on parenting.
One of the consideration would be the gender roles to provide for a child.Without either a male or female as a parent, a child might grow up with lack of exposure and understanding.
Although there are incidents where single parent families have children who are being brought up just like any other couples, same sex parenting might be a problem as the child might get influenced by the dominant gender role and in turn affect their perspective towards different genders.
Addressing Marcus' concern, it's a bit too late to try and stop homosexuals from wanting to have children because they ALREADY want to have children. It's the same thing as having Section 377A in the penal code- just because we lesgislate against them doesn't mean they don't exist.
What I was trying to say was that gays wanting to have children is a current issue and the best way to resolve it is to engage it, not stick your fingers into your ears, close your eyes and go "A kis has to be raised up by a mummy and a daddy! I can't HEAR you gays!", because, as my example has illustrated, that is very childish.
Regardless of what our Penal Code says, being gay is not wrong, so as such, gays wanting to have children is not a problem that we should try to preempt and curb at its roots because being gay is not even wrong in its essence. Gays wanting to have children is the next natural step that we should consider giving them, since we have already come to accept them as part of the social fabric.
Oh, and if you ask me which I would prefer? A heterosexual couple adopting me or a homosexual couple? I would say, as an abandoned child who has been forfeited my right to experience the tender, loving care of my natural parents, ANY would be fine.
On Wei Liang's point, I should think an abandoned child would feel a bit inclined to forsake understanding about the opposite sex if he were to be adopted by same-sex parents, well, since I would think he would rather be cared for and loved by same-sex parents than no one at all?
Not giving the same legal rights to gay couples just because they are gay is simply just a case of stereotype of the society. Just because it is not normal to have two moms/two dads in the family does not mean that incapable of taking care of kids. It does not prove that they are any different from normal parents(mom+dad). Therefore they should be given the same legal rights.
I feel that if gay couples are allowed to be given the same legal rights as hetrosexuals, then the world would really spinning the wrong way. Think about this, in America, the schools are teaching the kids that having two daddies or two mummys are perfectly fine, and its totally natural. Now, question, Would you want your child to be brought up in the same environment? What would be the impact on the kids? With some background knowledge on kids and they're understandability, they are innocent, believing everything they hear or that may seem logical to them (which makes power rangers really real to them) with an upbringing of allowing firstly, gay couples to be together, secondly, them to adopt children. Would it lead to the future generations being more accepting to gays? Definately! But at the cost of having more homosexual relationships, now, Who would make up these "More Homosexuals"? I believe its definately the future generations. Thus, I believe to save the minds of the coming generation/s gay couples should never be given the same legal rights as hetrosexuals.
I still think that gay couples should not be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children. However, they should still be given the right to adopt children.
I do not think that not giving them the same legal rights would mean that we are looking down on them or that we are not accepting them. It is just that we should be more careful when during the adoption process.
This is because the gay couples may not be as prepared for the child as they think. I believe that it would be harder for gay couples to bring up a child than normal couples. They would need to learn more about how they should bring up the child. They would also need to spend more time to communicate with the child. Therefore, gay couples must make more preparation and will need to sacrifice more in order to bring up the child.
On the other hand the child that they adopt must be matured enough. Therefore, there may be a need for an age limit.
I disagree with what zixin said about gay couples not being prepared to bring up kids, because nobody is prepared to bring up kids. First time parents were not prepared to bring up kids as well but as their kids grow up, the parents learn how to bring up their children.
Therefore we should not doubt any of their capability to bring up kids until they try.
I personally have a mixed view on this issue. It depends on which side I am looking at. From the point of view of homosexuals, I have to agree with it as I believe they got the freedom and like anyone of us, will want to experience the feeling of having a small family. We shouldn’t ban them from the adoption just because they are gay. We also can’t assume that a child being brought up in a gay family will mean that he/she will be homosexual when they grow up.
The society plays a part. Probably the older generation and the more conservative ones cannot understand why certain people turn into homosexuals, moreover imagining them having a family. I feel that people should open up to them more and most importantly accept them/understand them. They have their reasons for turning gay/lesbians. We can’t force them to turn heterosexual, it is all their choice.
However, on the other hand, it depends very much on the prospective birth mothers as to whether they want to place their child in the hands of gays or lesbians. Many will have second thoughts if they were to realize that the person adopting their child is a homosexual. Every single parent will want their child to grow up in a healthy and loving family. They want their kid to have the best of everything, have the greatest dream of them being a doctor, lawyer etc. This takes into considerations when birth mothers give away their child including birth mothers who do not object to gay couples.
I agree with what Stella said. I believe everyone is not prepared to have or bring up kids for the first time in their life. Heterosexual couples learn from their experience and also from those around them. So can gay couples. One can always learn the physical upbringing of a child from anywhere through books, friends etc. However what matters most is the mental upbringing, which is the most important stage of a child. As to this, it depends very much on the individuals. We can’t deny the fact that not all children of heterosexual parents will mean that they will have a good upbringing of kids. If it is so, why are there so many child abuse cases in the world then?
Addressing what cheryl had mentioned, i agree that it's a bit too late to try and stop homosexuals from wanting to have children because they ALREADY want to have children. Yes, they desire to have a complete family "so as to speak", however, have laws been implemented to allow gays to adopt children? Is it too late to stop what might have ruin a childs' pschological growth? If it is too late all these posts might have gone to naught. We might as well discuss whether gays adoptng children is ethical or not. You may imply that we are ignoring the needs of our homosexual friends and therefore we are childish for not being able to think logically and acccept what you have put forth. Our basic concern is that the child adopted by gay parents grows up like the other children, healthy in body and mind. For if such concerns are childish, aren't merely looking from the perspective of a homosexual makes you selfish? What about other aspects? Abondoned children are deprived of love, any love would be fine, because they are plunged into a predicament where they have no choice. Young and ignorant, who would have educate them on the detrimental effects of having gay parents?
I do not think by not giving gay couples the same legal rights equals to thinking that gay couples do not have the capability to bring up a child. It is not a case of fair or unfair nor are we doubting their ability. It is just that they have to be much more prepared than normal couples before they adopt a child.
It is true that no one can be fully prepared to bring up a child. However, gay couples will definitely face more difficulties and problems. They need to know about these problems and possible solutions to it. Bringing up a child may be a lot harder than they initially thought. They will need to know how to better communicate with the child.
Therefore, there is a need for gay couples to undergo more tests for the good of the adopted child. If the gay couples are really serious about the adoption and are willing to devote more time in order to better bring up the child, they will understand why they can not be given the same legal rights.
Dexter Tay : i feel that gays should have the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children, and that this question revolves around the rights and freedom of gays.
firstly, i dont see anything wrong with gays wanting to adopt children. if the 2 men want to have a family like any normal household then why not? just because they're gays? denying them legal rights just because they are the minority is plain prejudice. they have the freedom to choose the same sex as their soul mates and there's nothing wrong with that.
secondly, lets talk abt the impact it will have on the adopted children.Marcus's 1st post 4th paragraph is plain hasty generalization and slippery slope. there is nth to imply that if gays adopt children, Quote: "t will risk diminishing the world's population in years to come."
therefore, i think that he should come up with a better point to substantiate his view
Prior to what Dexter said previously, I agree totally.
"if the 2 men want to have a family like any normal household then why not? just because they're gays? denying them legal rights just because they are the minority is plain prejudice." This is absolutely true. Why should the society deny them of their rights just because?
Bottom line being, one's orientation does not determine their parental abilities.
However I refer to some negative worries others may have.
Be it the worries of the child growing up to be of homosexual orientation, or be it the child growing up under the influence of homosexual parents; in my opinion this is plain bias - against the gay couples.
Quoting gerlynn, "can any of us say that a child growing up with gay parents will have an entirely NORMAL family unit?"
A Normal family unit. Perhaps this is what trouble most. For thousands of years this has been known as the basic unit of life and is deemed to be correct, or normal. But does that mean because we're steering away from having one dad and mom - as NORMAL, to having two dads or two moms..be ABNORMAL?
I believe that gay couples should be given the essential rights to adopt children. Because i seriously feel that gay couples would treat their children more dearly than how a heterosexuals couple would.
Yes, their mindset could somehow be affected by the behavior of their "parents" but this dosen mean will also affect their sexual orientation.
I am strongly against what marcus explained in the previous post, stating that "The children's pschological health will be adversely affected during the growing up stage.They have to endure unceasing teases from peers for having gay parents." why?
Firstly, what are all the "support gay campaigns" for if he is still worry about the mental health of those children affected by harsh comments of peers? i m sure in a modern age world we are living in now, people tend to be more "open" regarding this issue.I could prove this by giving a real life story of my friend,who grew up under the care of his gay "parents". He too, agree that that his parents often encourage him to spend more time with guys, but tat dosen prove him to be gay! Because he has a girlfriend..... Furthermore, he agrees that his "parents" are far more open-minded than others and gave him sufficient freedom.
Thus i conclude that gay couples should not be taken of their rights to adopt children. They have equal rights to enjoy parenthood too.
i'm not commenting on the statement 'Should gay couples be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children?' but instead i choose to quote jenn.
But does that mean because we're steering away from having one dad and mom - as NORMAL, to having two dads or two moms..be ABNORMAL?
in my opinion, the answer to your question (i'm assuming its not a rhetoric one) is Yes, having two dads or two moms is abnormal.
i'm taking abnormal as unnatural. i believe that it is indeed unnatural to have two dads or two moms because naturally/biologically, you need a male and a female to breed. yes, the child might be adopted. but still, you can't really classify gay couples and their children as a Normal family.
if not for Man's societal boundaries and if nature had its way, all men would be promiscuous and we'll probably be reproducing like mad.
that is, if nature had its way.
all i'm saying is, look how far we have veered from that.
ok that's all.
anyway! just a side kinda thing from our favourite answer sheet, Wikipedia. please dont use this against me. kidding, you can bombard me all you want.
A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.
Homosexuality in animals is seen as controversial because some assert it points to the naturalness of homosexuality in humans, while others counter that it has no implications and is nonsensical to use animal behavior to justify what is or is not immoral.
It is true that there are gay support campaigns but come to think of it, is it publicising extensively to create awareness? Even if it is so, do you think that these campaigns have acheived what it is set out for? Because i am certain that there are still many homosexuals in the closet. If the campaigns are truely effective, why do they have to hide and be ashame of their sexual orientation. All these simply proves that people are not ready to accept (quoted from many) what is deemed unnatural. That is why, Gary, i am worry that "the mental health of those children affected by harsh comments of peers".
I totally agree with Hazwan, Gerlynn and Bernard. I think homosexuality is not natural simply because nature did not intend it to be this way. Contrary to what Messiah said, I believe homosexuality/bisexuality is a choice and not innate. They change because of past failed relationships with the opposite sex or because they want attention.
We all agree adoption should be for the benefit of the child.
One possible problem is that gays are not legally bonded together as gay marriages are not allowed in Singapore. You may say that they have gay bonds but i think the level of commitment is much higher when there is a legal aspect. A heterosexual couple having problems may not separate as easily as they have to think about the tedious divorce proceedings thus having to reconcile to keep the family together. Whereas homosexuals do not have to worry about the legal aspect, it is almost like a casual relationship. What will happen to the child then?
Also, the child would not be old enough to decide whether he/she is fine with having gay parents and not a conventional family like most people.
I think how we view this issue really depends on our general views on homosexuals. Do we see them "unnatural" or part of a progression in society?
To address Leon's point about the possibility of a gay parent walking out on their adopted child since they are not legally marriedm well I think that worrying about gays seperating from their partners is equivilant to worrying about the increasing divorce rate in S'pore. Regardless of whether the child's adopted parents are gay or straight, there is always a possibility of a seperation, so I think that that factor should not be factored into whether homosexuals should have the same legal rights as heterosexual couples since there is a possibility of seperation either way.
It is wrong to discriminate against a sector of society on the basis that they are 'unnatural'. The majority of whites in the US thought that the blacks were 'unnatural' and should always be slaves, so it was up to the government to evoke change and ban slavery. In the same light, the government of S'pore should take initial steps to progress society in the right direction where we do not discriminate, rather, we engage and welcome them into the social fabric.
So Govt. of S'pore, if you ever get to read this, REPEAL 377A, THEN GIVE GAYS THE RIGHT TO ADOPT! It's your ouness to proress gay rights, bung 'traditional Asian society'.
hello Cheryl, no doubt there is a possibility of heterosexual couples separating, i do not deny that. I am just stating that people are likely to think twice about separating when there is external intervention, in this case the government. If people choose to go to court, not only will the result would be out of their hands but they also have to fork out money. I think thats a thought that will constantly be at the back of their heads if they consider divorce.
I can't really comment on your second point because I see them as different issues. Blacks were born the way they are, whereas in MY opinion, like i stated above, homosexuality is a choice.
Like i said, our views will depend on our general view on homosexuality.
*Regarding my previous post in the last line, please change "homosexuals" to "homosexuality". I just realised by saying homosexuals ,it suggests that i am discriminating them as a person, which is absolutely untrue. Perhaps this is why you brought up your second point. =)*
I personally feel that the issue that we should be more concern is about the welfare of the children. Adopting children = abandoned by their biological parents and there is already an existing emotional hurt in them. With a gay couple as their parents, can you imagine the criticism that the children have to face when they are growing up?? This would further aggravate their already low self esteem.
I think that we should be more responsible towards a younger generation than just a moment of impulsive choice. because the gay couples too, must have experienced some kind of unhappy incident that they went through before they decided to be gay. However, it's not the issue of acceptance, but it's about helping them to face the society again, more than just critisizing their behaviour and rights as a gay.
If the parents themselves, already have problems in dealing with their own emotional issues, how can both parties (parents and children) be happy in their family life? There will be more unhappiness whenever things cropped up because they cannot deal with thier emotional barrier. With this barrier, how can we love one another more freely? because by nature, the more we are hurt, we will refrain from loving and communicating with people even more.
43 comments:
In my opinion, i believe that gay couples should not be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children. Here are my reasonings.
1) The children's pschological health will be adversely affected during the growing up stage. They have to endure unceasing teases from peers for having gay parents. Research have shown that these children grows up to be unsociable and more withdrawn.
2)Growing up with gay parents also questions their sexual orientation. As children tends to emulate their parents, their sexual orientation may fashion after their parents who are suppose to be their role models
These are two of the many reasons why gay couples should not be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children. Yes, there are countries where being gay is a norm, however, if nothing is done to curb the increasing gay activities, the gay population will rise over time and it will risk diminishing the world's population in years to come.
On the contrary to Marcus's opinion, I strongly agree that gay couples should be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals.
By disallowing gay couples to adopt children, we are denying their rights. Besides, research has shown that every individual has the tendency to love and to care. Therefore on Marcus's first point, I beg to differ. One's orientation does not determine their parental abilities. They do have the right to display love for their children. Furthermore, who says a family with two dads/moms be tantamount to a not complete or 'normal' family?
Prior to the above, some may question the possibility of children becoming homosexual under the influence of gay parents. However, one's sexual orientation is not only determined by their family's upbringing.
For instance, Ellen Lee DeGeneres,an American stand-up comedian, actress, and currently the Emmy Award-winning host, is known for her open homosexuality. But she was not raised by homosexual parents, thus bringing out the fact that not only children from gay parents would turn out gay.
Bottom line being, gay couples should not be denied of their rights to adopt children. The children's mental health should not entirely be based on the upbringing of the family. There are children that turned gay under heterosexuals parents as well, so why not give the homosexuals a chance?
I am for having gay parents the same adoption rights as straight parents. Jenn took my arguments right out of my mouth, so I'll just have to state new ones =(
I shall talk about the message sent.
If we continue to restrain homosexual couples from the joys of parenthood, the government is inevitably legitamising the exclusion of homosexuals from society. Why? because if they continue to retrain homosexuals from the very fundamental right to have children, the government is implicitely saying that "this segment of people are social freaks and we don't trust them with our parentless children".
Can you imagine if this message sent to society continues to persist? The government will effectively legitamize the poor treatment of homosexuals and thus, stagnant gay rights movements.
All in all, I think that this debate should center around the children. If there is a willing person, even if that person is gay, wanting badly to experience the joys of parenthood with a child that has had that opportunity snatched away from him, I am all for it. I think it is only right that every child gets to experience the love of a parent.
i agree 100% with Jenn. Homosexuals should not be given any different rules from heterosexuals. If heterosexuals get to adopt children, then why not homosexuals? By disallowing them the chance to a proper family, there are alot of adverse side effects:
1)We are isolating homosexuals even further then they already are.
2) We would be in a digressing society instead of a progressing one, rolling back into the very conservative society that we once were. We will not be allowing for modernisation and the acceptance of all people as human beings, living harmoniously in one community.
3)We are not allowing orphan children in a dire need for a real family a chance at a real life, thus increasing the numbers of children who grow up as orphans.
Also, i think Marcus's worry of questioning the sexual orientaion of the child is unnecessary. In the modernisation and development of science in this world, why is he so worried about our species going extinct? If the kids grow up wanting to be gay, then we should just let them. It is their preference. Howeever, it is a hasty generalisation to say that kids who grow up with gay parents are going to doubt their sexual orientation. Why can;t kids who grow up with gay parents grow up to be straight?
Therefore i think it is unnecessary worry and that gay couples should DEFINITELY be allowed the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children.
Firstly, i would like to address what Jenn had mentioned. She misinterprets my 1st point as i did not state that "One's orientation determines their parental abilities". In general, homosexuals are often being ostracized by heterosexuals. Gay parents will implicate their child as people will tease these children for having gay parents. People stereotype homosexuals as abnormal because in the past, homosexual is categorized as a mental disorder. Generations grow up associating homosexual as a mental illness. Although the newer generation we belong to are cultured to know otherwise. If people are cultured to have such mentality, how can we blame them for not entrusting children to gay people?
Jenn too mentioned that there are cases in which heterosexual parents raise up gay children. Yes homosexual people originated from heterosexual parents, otherwise where do they come from? i would like to reiterate one of my points. Children tend to emulate their parents. They are what they are exposed to. If their parents inculcate in them that homosexuality is a norm, won't they risk turning homosexual as it is a norm to them? There are factors, tons of them that determine one's sexual orientation, but upbringing is a factor that plays a major role.
Let me quote from Cheryl “If we continue to restrain homosexual couples from the joys of parenthood, the government is inevitably legitamising the exclusion of homosexuals from society. Why? because if they continue to retrain homosexuals from the very fundamental right to have children, the government is implicitely saying that "this segment of people are social freaks and we don't trust them with our parentless children". If I am not wrong, what she put forth is known as slippery slope. The society is trying their utmost best to accept homosexuality. Asking to adopt children is outrageously crossing the line.
Viha mentioned that we are isolating homosexuals even further then we already are. And YES! This simple shows that the society is still not ready for this. If we narrow our scope to Singapore, we ARE STILL a conservative society. We have to give people time to accept what is in their terms “abnormal”.
In this discussion i believe we are discussing whether gay couples should be allowed to adopt children just like heterosexuals. There are countries that have already legalize homosexual couples adopting children, however we are looking at the picture in general. If you are interested in knowing the adoption laws and rights, here is the link http://www.adoptionservices.org/adoption/adoption_laws_rights.htm
The adoption rights listed in this site is for heterosexual parents. This is the same rights gay parents are fighting to get hold of.
Marcus just discussed with me with regards to the issue on "LEGAL RIGHTS"
My question was about how the exisiting legal rights of adoption would cater to heterosexuals.
However the statement is about whether they should even be given any rights in the first place.
So let me stick to the topic.
To simplfiy, my point is :
Whether they should be given the rights, depends on every indivual couples.
Social science research have shown that homoosexual's children do not lack any form of social competence when compared to others.
The controversy is with Parenting.
PS: Thank you Marcus for pointing my mistake and the link u provided.
I feel that gay couples should have the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children. Homosexuals are already being ostracised in our society. Why make matters worse by not giving them the same legal rights?
There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents. They are as capable to take care of children as heterosexuals. Good parenting is not influenced by their sexual orientation, but by a parent's ability to create a loving and nurturing home (an ability that does not depend on whether a parent is gay or straight). I feel that given this opportunity, homosexuals will treasure it well and will be able to raise up responsible and successful children who can impact the society.
Therefore, I feel that homosexuals should not be denied of their legal rights to adopt children because they will also be able to do good by providing a loving home for orphans.
I agree strongly with what jenn, cheryl and viha has stated above.
In my opinion, i do not think that the environment that a person grew up in could turn that person gay. Like the example jenn mention, Ellen Degeneres, many homosexuals come from hecterosexual families. The upbringing doesn't affect the sexual orientation of a person. I believe, a person is born with his/her sexual orientation. Except, it takes time to discover if you are bi/gay/lesbian.
I think, if we deny the same legal rights to homosexuals when adopting children, we are just (i quote viha on this) "isolating them even further". Portraying gender bias against them. I do think that we should put ourselves in their shoes, and try to understand how much confusion they could have been through, how much suffering and torture they might feel inside when they havent came out of the closet, and if they did, how much judgement they face from the "straight" public.
Besides, these 'gay' people just want their own children. When they cant produce their own, because of the simple reason,they are gay. Why cant we let them adopt children? These children lost their parents at very young ages, and if theres a couple, be it straight or gay, why not give the orphans a chance to experience family love? Wouldnt we be denying these orphans more opportunities in getting a family?
With that, i hope i made my point.
I feel that gay couples should be given the legal rights to adopt children. However, I think that gay couples should not be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children.
Some differences would be that the child must agree to the adoption. At the same time, the child must be matured enough to understand why their parents behave differently and decide whether they can face the teasing and pressure from friends. The gay couple must undergo observation to ensure that they are prepared to adopt the child.
In this way, it would reduce the difficulties in the upbringing of the child. Both the adopted child and the couple would not be hurt too.
i agree fully with zixin that there may be a need for some extra precautions put in place to see if the homosexual couple are fit to be parents. But they SHOULD not and MUST not be ostracised just because they prefer someone of the same gender!
On the point Marcus made about Singapore being a conservative society, i only have one thing to say: The society is NEVER going to change. No-one is going to suddenly wake up one morning and say, "Hey, you know what, i suddenly feel like accepting gays for who they are!". Noone is going to do this. Therefore, it is up to the government to take the first step, and show the community that "Hey, you know what, its about time we considered gays as part of our community, and therefore as your leader, i'm going to start with me!" The government has a responsibility and duty to take care of ALL its citizens, no matter sexual orientation. One way they can show that they are REALLY doing their job is to accept homosexuals for who they are and give them normal legal rights, just like everyone else. Like Cheryl said, not giving them this right just sends the message that we are purposely excluding them from the rest of our community. Doing this would CLEARLY show the lack of responsibility on the part of the government.
Like Shirley said, "There is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents. They are as capable to take care of children as heterosexuals. Good parenting is not influenced by their sexual orientation, but by a parent's ability to create a loving and nurturing home (an ability that does not depend on whether a parent is gay or straight)."
On a side note, for some reason, i find Marcus to be fighting a one-man battle against the rest of our class! Hahaha... sorry Marcus...
I do not think that gay couples should be allowed to adopt children.
While it is true that gay people sometimes come from heterosexual parents, from studies, it has shown that they are the way they are because of certain events that occur, for example, hanging around homosexual friends or relatives from a young age, or being sexually abused. It can also be said that children who come from homosexual parents are more LIKELY to be become homosexual as well, because of the increased influence at home. As Marcus has mentioned earlier, all children tend to emulate their parents. We did not learn to eat or drink without trying to copy our parents. That said, our knowledge of what is right, what is wrong and what is the normal way of life is often taught by our parents. If a parent does drugs and drinks alcohol often, a child may also grow up to believe that such things are alright. What will a child think when he or she sees his male parent exchanging intimacies with another male parent? That it is fine, it is alright, it is how life should be, when in fact it is going against nature.
There is a reason why only sex between a male and a female can produce a child. If nature had meant for gays to have children, wouldn’t they also be equipped with the sexual organs to be able to do so? To this day, even the best of medical technology cannot perform an operation to enable gay couples to produce children.
Gay couples may want to enjoy the joys of parenthood – but adoption does not only involve the parents. It involves the adopted child as well – and I think all chances should be given to the child to grow up in a normal core family unit. That said, can any of us say that a child growing up with gay parents will have an entirely NORMAL family unit? Can you imagine calling a male parent “Mom?”
People have argued that we should allow gay couples to adopt children because we are supposed to be a progressive society. However, I would also like to add that there is nothing wrong with tradition. Our ‘progressive’ society has only brought about more violence and wrongdoings in this world, for example, legalizing abortion because a woman has the RIGHT to what she wants to do with her body. Going against what nature has decreed is not progress; rather, it is destruction on one’s core values.
To end off, I shall ask a simple question – would any of you rather be brought up by gay parents, or straight parents?
homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children but from a case to case basis.
we cannot deny the fact that letting homosexuals adopt children is negative for the child psychologically by having a family that does not have the stereotypical mom and dad. They are also more prone to becoming homosexuals as they probably will have parental approval or support in the area [having parents that are homosexuals themselves.]
Homosexual parents must be prepared to explain to the child, when he is of age, why exactly he has two moms or two dads. This could take an emotional toll on the child as well.
However, If homosexuals can take care of children like normal parents and educate them on an ethical and natural sexuality I do not see why they cannot be parents.
Having tradition for a REASON is all good and well, but clinging on to tradition for tradition sake is unfounded. Gerlynn's basic argument is that we should deny a parent-less child parents and a couple who are unable to have children a child just because tradition dictates so.
Perhaps it is so called 'against nature' for homosexuals to have children, but we must also remember that it was agaisnt nature that we, the people of the world, create pollutants that poison our earth. My point is: Things happen. What we need to do, as a progressive, responsible society, is deal with it effectively.
Since the notion of homosexuals have now become more welcome, we should take a step forward and provide them the right to adopt children, and not only that, the same rights as a heterosexual couple.
All adoptions are done on a case to case basis with very strict criteria that encompasses an income test, a psychological test, repeat interviews and a detailed study of the couples' track records. If homosexual couples can pass such a stringent exam and are comitted to providing the best for their child, I think it is only prudent that we let that child experience the love of a parent, bugger those who want to mock these children, because I think being teased by their peers is less detrimental than a child not being loved properly.
I think that gay couples should be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children.
As what viha has mentioned about the society not being able to accept gay couples, doesn't make gay couples weird. They are afterall still humans and all humans should be treated fairly regardless of their sexual orientation.
What marcus has mentioned about adopted children growing up with gay parents will affect their sexual orientation is not true. Kids growing up in what the society believes is the normal family (Dad+Mum), turn out to be gays. Therefore children are influenced by the society itself and not their parents. Yes, the children are influenced by their parents but not in alot of ways.
Therefore gay couples should enjoy the same fair treatment as heterosexuals. Just because they are of the minority doesn't make them diferent from us.
I feel that homosxual parents should be allowed to adopt children, this is being said because i agree with jenn and viha's comments, in that homosexuals should be given the same right as heterosexuals. After all, in this society, i am sure that everyone would want to be treated fairly. Though, the couple that will be bringing up the child in a evironment, that has the parents as the same gender, i do feel that it is still possible for the couple to still bring up the child normally in a good and holistic environment, just like under heterosexual parents.
Firstly, i would like to state that i am not homophobic. Accepting homosexuals is one issue and giving legal rights to homosexuals to adopt children is a totally different issue.
Viha mentioned that the society is never going to change. i beg to differ. Societies all over the world are taking steps to accept homosexuality whereas in the past, gay activities are viewed as abomination. Societies will change, but change in time gradually.
Cheryl mentioned that "things happen. What we need to do, as a progressive, responsible society, is deal with it effectively." In my opinion, i think that this statement is very irresponsible(sorry cheryl). Things do happen, but if we have in us the power to stop what is going to happen from happening, we should do our utmost best to curb these threats. The earth is plague by pollution, how have humanity effectively solve the problem? We do not loft around and wait for things to happen, and when it does happen, we panic and try to "effectively" solve the problem. We have to forsee such happenings and take precautions.
i agree very much to what zixin had put forth, that the child must agree to the adoption. Its all up to the child. If the child doesnt mind, then go for it. But that being said, put yourselves in that position to choose, would you rather be adopted by gay parents? Or would your actions be contrary to what you have said?
saly:
Gay couples should be given less legal rights as compared to heterosexuals when adopting children.
I believe that the environment can shape a child’s sexual orientation, as opposed to Messiah’s “I do not think that the environment that a person grew up in could turn that person gay.” What parents do, there is a tendency for children to follow. So if parents are gay, the child will think gay couples are acceptable, and may in turn turn gays themselves.
Children brought up under gay parents lacks motherly love. Having a mother by a child’s side is very important and is not just having the gay parents to play the mother’s role can do it. However, if a heterosexual male wants to adopt children, being heterosexual, he will not influence his adopted child to become gay.
Nontheless, it is also not fair to deny gay couples' rights to adopt children as they are after all human with human rights. Hence, gay couples can be given legal rights to adopt children, but less as compared to heterosexuals.
Just to state a point. Usually when you adopt a child, how old do you think that child is? I think that child must be at about ages less than one to about maximum 8 or 9. Do you think children at these ages understand the term "homosexuality"? I highly doubt so.
From what marcus and what zixin has put forward. The idea of "letting the child make a decision". I do not think that its ethical. If child doesnt even know what homosexuality means, how can they make a decision?
Also, gerlynn made a point that the upbringing does affect and alter a person's sexuality. I highly doubt that. I stick to my belief that people are born with their sexuality. They cannot choose and change their sexuality over time, and over influences.
The example that she used, ie. ( parental drug abuse etc), in this case scenario, i think, does not apply appropriately to this topic about sexuality.
Yes. I do agree that the child might grow up to feel uncomfortable, living in a family with 2 moms, or 2 dads. But i believe, upon growing up and getting loved by these homosexual couples, they would get adjusted, and would come to accept their parents for their differences.
--> Homosexuals are generalised as unethical
--> Thus people began to doubt about their ablities to provide for their child.
--> In my opinion, this issue is subjective and it depends on every indivual homosexual couples.
The first homosexual grown up from a family similar to ours with a mom and dad.
Risks of gender confusion exists in every family. What matters is the upbringing of the children.
With the right exposure and a balanced lifestyle, it is possible for a child of a homosexual to grow up with his/her own beliefs and values.
Pardon me for my lack of knowlege about the legal rights, but from what i researched there is no unique requirements or tests for homosextual to do their adoption.
Can anyone enlighten me about the "LEGAL RIGHTS" part for the statement?
Best regards,
Wei Liang
i agree with Marcus that "Accepting homosexuals is one issue and giving legal rights to homosexuals to adopt children is a totally different issue."
When it comes to adopting children, i believe that other issues comes into play. Bringing up a child is already a chore and much emphasis had been placed on parenting.
One of the consideration would be the gender roles to provide for a child.Without either a male or female as a parent, a child might grow up with lack of exposure and understanding.
Although there are incidents where single parent families have children who are being brought up just like any other couples, same sex parenting might be a problem as the child might get influenced by the dominant gender role and in turn affect their perspective towards different genders.
Addressing Marcus' concern, it's a bit too late to try and stop homosexuals from wanting to have children because they ALREADY want to have children. It's the same thing as having Section 377A in the penal code- just because we lesgislate against them doesn't mean they don't exist.
What I was trying to say was that gays wanting to have children is a current issue and the best way to resolve it is to engage it, not stick your fingers into your ears, close your eyes and go "A kis has to be raised up by a mummy and a daddy! I can't HEAR you gays!", because, as my example has illustrated, that is very childish.
Regardless of what our Penal Code says, being gay is not wrong, so as such, gays wanting to have children is not a problem that we should try to preempt and curb at its roots because being gay is not even wrong in its essence. Gays wanting to have children is the next natural step that we should consider giving them, since we have already come to accept them as part of the social fabric.
Oh, and if you ask me which I would prefer? A heterosexual couple adopting me or a homosexual couple? I would say, as an abandoned child who has been forfeited my right to experience the tender, loving care of my natural parents, ANY would be fine.
On Wei Liang's point, I should think an abandoned child would feel a bit inclined to forsake understanding about the opposite sex if he were to be adopted by same-sex parents, well, since I would think he would rather be cared for and loved by same-sex parents than no one at all?
Not giving the same legal rights to gay couples just because they are gay is simply just a case of stereotype of the society. Just because it is not normal to have two moms/two dads in the family does not mean that incapable of taking care of kids. It does not prove that they are any different from normal parents(mom+dad). Therefore they should be given the same legal rights.
I feel that if gay couples are allowed to be given the same legal rights as hetrosexuals, then the world would really spinning the wrong way. Think about this, in America, the schools are teaching the kids that having two daddies or two mummys are perfectly fine, and its totally natural. Now, question, Would you want your child to be brought up in the same environment? What would be the impact on the kids? With some background knowledge on kids and they're understandability, they are innocent, believing everything they hear or that may seem logical to them (which makes power rangers really real to them) with an upbringing of allowing firstly, gay couples to be together, secondly, them to adopt children. Would it lead to the future generations being more accepting to gays? Definately! But at the cost of having more homosexual relationships, now, Who would make up these "More Homosexuals"? I believe its definately the future generations. Thus, I believe to save the minds of the coming generation/s gay couples should never be given the same legal rights as hetrosexuals.
I still think that gay couples should not be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children. However, they should still be given the right to adopt children.
I do not think that not giving them the same legal rights would mean that we are looking down on them or that we are not accepting them. It is just that we should be more careful when during the adoption process.
This is because the gay couples may not be as prepared for the child as they think. I believe that it would be harder for gay couples to bring up a child than normal couples. They would need to learn more about how they should bring up the child. They would also need to spend more time to communicate with the child. Therefore, gay couples must make more preparation and will need to sacrifice more in order to bring up the child.
On the other hand the child that they adopt must be matured enough. Therefore, there may be a need for an age limit.
I disagree with what zixin said about gay couples not being prepared to bring up kids, because nobody is prepared to bring up kids. First time parents were not prepared to bring up kids as well but as their kids grow up, the parents learn how to bring up their children.
Therefore we should not doubt any of their capability to bring up kids until they try.
I personally have a mixed view on this issue. It depends on which side I am looking at. From the point of view of homosexuals, I have to agree with it as I believe they got the freedom and like anyone of us, will want to experience the feeling of having a small family. We shouldn’t ban them from the adoption just because they are gay. We also can’t assume that a child being brought up in a gay family will mean that he/she will be homosexual when they grow up.
The society plays a part. Probably the older generation and the more conservative ones cannot understand why certain people turn into homosexuals, moreover imagining them having a family. I feel that people should open up to them more and most importantly accept them/understand them. They have their reasons for turning gay/lesbians. We can’t force them to turn heterosexual, it is all their choice.
However, on the other hand, it depends very much on the prospective birth mothers as to whether they want to place their child in the hands of gays or lesbians. Many will have second thoughts if they were to realize that the person adopting their child is a homosexual. Every single parent will want their child to grow up in a healthy and loving family. They want their kid to have the best of everything, have the greatest dream of them being a doctor, lawyer etc. This takes into considerations when birth mothers give away their child including birth mothers who do not object to gay couples.
I agree with what Stella said. I believe everyone is not prepared to have or bring up kids for the first time in their life. Heterosexual couples learn from their experience and also from those around them. So can gay couples. One can always learn the physical upbringing of a child from anywhere through books, friends etc. However what matters most is the mental upbringing, which is the most important stage of a child. As to this, it depends very much on the individuals. We can’t deny the fact that not all children of heterosexual parents will mean that they will have a good upbringing of kids. If it is so, why are there so many child abuse cases in the world then?
Addressing what cheryl had mentioned, i agree that it's a bit too late to try and stop homosexuals from wanting to have children because they ALREADY want to have children. Yes, they desire to have a complete family "so as to speak", however, have laws been implemented to allow gays to adopt children? Is it too late to stop what might have ruin a childs' pschological growth? If it is too late all these posts might have gone to naught. We might as well discuss whether gays adoptng children is ethical or not. You may imply that we are ignoring the needs of our homosexual friends and therefore we are childish for not being able to think logically and acccept what you have put forth. Our basic concern is that the child adopted by gay parents grows up like the other children, healthy in body and mind. For if such concerns are childish, aren't merely looking from the perspective of a homosexual makes you selfish? What about other aspects? Abondoned children are deprived of love, any love would be fine, because they are plunged into a predicament where they have no choice. Young and ignorant, who would have educate them on the detrimental effects of having gay parents?
I do not think by not giving gay couples the same legal rights equals to thinking that gay couples do not have the capability to bring up a child. It is not a case of fair or unfair nor are we doubting their ability. It is just that they have to be much more prepared than normal couples before they adopt a child.
It is true that no one can be fully prepared to bring up a child. However, gay couples will definitely face more difficulties and problems. They need to know about these problems and possible solutions to it. Bringing up a child may be a lot harder than they initially thought. They will need to know how to better communicate with the child.
Therefore, there is a need for gay couples to undergo more tests for the good of the adopted child. If the gay couples are really serious about the adoption and are willing to devote more time in order to better bring up the child, they will understand why they can not be given the same legal rights.
Dexter Tay :
i feel that gays should have the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children, and that this question revolves around the rights and freedom of gays.
firstly, i dont see anything wrong with gays wanting to adopt children. if the 2 men want to have a family like any normal household then why not? just because they're gays? denying them legal rights just because they are the minority is plain prejudice. they have the freedom to choose the same sex as their soul mates and there's nothing wrong with that.
secondly, lets talk abt the impact it will have on the adopted children.Marcus's 1st post 4th paragraph is plain hasty generalization and slippery slope. there is nth to imply that if gays adopt children, Quote: "t will risk diminishing the world's population in years to come."
therefore, i think that he should come up with a better point to substantiate his view
Prior to what Dexter said previously, I agree totally.
"if the 2 men want to have a family like any normal household then why not? just because they're gays? denying them legal rights just because they are the minority is plain prejudice."
This is absolutely true. Why should the society deny them of their rights just because?
Bottom line being, one's orientation does not determine their parental abilities.
However I refer to some negative worries others may have.
Be it the worries of the child growing up to be of homosexual orientation, or be it the child growing up under the influence of homosexual parents; in my opinion this is plain bias - against the gay couples.
Quoting gerlynn, "can any of us say that a child growing up with gay parents will have an entirely NORMAL family unit?"
A Normal family unit. Perhaps this is what trouble most. For thousands of years this has been known as the basic unit of life and is deemed to be correct, or normal. But does that mean because we're steering away from having one dad and mom - as NORMAL, to having two dads or two moms..be ABNORMAL?
Just my two cents worth.
I believe that gay couples should be given the essential rights to adopt children. Because i seriously feel that gay couples would treat their children more dearly than how a heterosexuals couple would.
Yes, their mindset could somehow be affected by the behavior of their "parents" but this dosen mean will also affect their sexual orientation.
I am strongly against what marcus explained in the previous post, stating that "The children's pschological health will be adversely affected during the growing up stage.They have to endure unceasing teases from peers for having gay parents." why?
Firstly, what are all the "support gay campaigns" for if he is still worry about the mental health of those children affected by harsh comments of peers? i m sure in a modern age world we are living in now, people tend to be more "open" regarding this issue.I could prove this by giving a real life story of my friend,who grew up under the care of his gay "parents". He too, agree that that his parents often encourage him to spend more time with guys, but tat dosen prove him to be gay! Because he has a girlfriend..... Furthermore, he agrees that his "parents" are far more open-minded than others and gave him sufficient freedom.
Thus i conclude that gay couples should not be taken of their rights to adopt children. They have equal rights to enjoy parenthood too.
gary
i'm not commenting on the statement 'Should gay couples be given the same legal rights as heterosexuals when adopting children?'
but instead i choose to quote jenn.
But does that mean because we're steering away from having one dad and mom - as NORMAL, to having two dads or two moms..be ABNORMAL?
in my opinion, the answer to your question (i'm assuming its not a rhetoric one) is Yes, having two dads or two moms is abnormal.
i'm taking abnormal as unnatural.
i believe that it is indeed unnatural to have two dads or two moms because naturally/biologically, you need a male and a female to breed.
yes, the child might be adopted. but still, you can't really classify gay couples and their children as a Normal family.
if not for Man's societal boundaries and if nature had its way, all men would be promiscuous and we'll probably be reproducing like mad.
that is, if nature had its way.
all i'm saying is, look how far we have veered from that.
ok that's all.
anyway! just a side kinda thing from our favourite answer sheet, Wikipedia. please dont use this against me. kidding, you can bombard me all you want.
A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them.
Homosexuality in animals is seen as controversial because some assert it points to the naturalness of homosexuality in humans, while others counter that it has no implications and is nonsensical to use animal behavior to justify what is or is not immoral.
cheeers!
It is true that there are gay support campaigns but come to think of it, is it publicising extensively to create awareness? Even if it is so, do you think that these campaigns have acheived what it is set out for? Because i am certain that there are still many homosexuals in the closet. If the campaigns are truely effective, why do they have to hide and be ashame of their sexual orientation. All these simply proves that people are not ready to accept (quoted from many) what is deemed unnatural. That is why, Gary, i am worry that "the mental health of those children affected by harsh comments of peers".
I totally agree with Hazwan, Gerlynn and Bernard. I think homosexuality is not natural simply because nature did not intend it to be this way. Contrary to what Messiah said, I believe homosexuality/bisexuality is a choice and not innate. They change because of past failed relationships with the opposite sex or because they want attention.
We all agree adoption should be for the benefit of the child.
One possible problem is that gays are not legally bonded together as gay marriages are not allowed in Singapore. You may say that they have gay bonds but i think the level of commitment is much higher when there is a legal aspect. A heterosexual couple having problems may not separate as easily as they have to think about the tedious divorce proceedings thus having to reconcile to keep the family together. Whereas homosexuals do not have to worry about the legal aspect, it is almost like a casual relationship. What will happen to the child then?
Also, the child would not be old enough to decide whether he/she is fine with having gay parents and not a conventional family like most people.
I think how we view this issue really depends on our general views on homosexuals. Do we see them "unnatural" or part of a progression in society?
Leon
To address Leon's point about the possibility of a gay parent walking out on their adopted child since they are not legally marriedm well I think that worrying about gays seperating from their partners is equivilant to worrying about the increasing divorce rate in S'pore. Regardless of whether the child's adopted parents are gay or straight, there is always a possibility of a seperation, so I think that that factor should not be factored into whether homosexuals should have the same legal rights as heterosexual couples since there is a possibility of seperation either way.
It is wrong to discriminate against a sector of society on the basis that they are 'unnatural'. The majority of whites in the US thought that the blacks were 'unnatural' and should always be slaves, so it was up to the government to evoke change and ban slavery. In the same light, the government of S'pore should take initial steps to progress society in the right direction where we do not discriminate, rather, we engage and welcome them into the social fabric.
So Govt. of S'pore, if you ever get to read this, REPEAL 377A, THEN GIVE GAYS THE RIGHT TO ADOPT! It's your ouness to proress gay rights, bung 'traditional Asian society'.
hello Cheryl, no doubt there is a possibility of heterosexual couples separating, i do not deny that. I am just stating that people are likely to think twice about separating when there is external intervention, in this case the government. If people choose to go to court, not only will the result would be out of their hands but they also have to fork out money. I think thats a thought that will constantly be at the back of their heads if they consider divorce.
I can't really comment on your second point because I see them as different issues. Blacks were born the way they are, whereas in MY opinion, like i stated above, homosexuality is a choice.
Like i said, our views will depend on our general view on homosexuality.
*Regarding my previous post in the last line, please change "homosexuals" to "homosexuality". I just realised by saying homosexuals ,it suggests that i am discriminating them as a person, which is absolutely untrue. Perhaps this is why you brought up your second point. =)*
Leon
I personally feel that the issue that we should be more concern is about the welfare of the children.
Adopting children = abandoned by their biological parents and there is already an existing emotional hurt in them. With a gay couple as their parents, can you imagine the criticism that the children have to face when they are growing up?? This would further aggravate their already low self esteem.
I think that we should be more responsible towards a younger generation than just a moment of impulsive choice. because the gay couples too, must have experienced some kind of unhappy incident that they went through before they decided to be gay. However, it's not the issue of acceptance, but it's about helping them to face the society again, more than just critisizing their behaviour and rights as a gay.
If the parents themselves, already have problems in dealing with their own emotional issues, how can both parties (parents and children) be happy in their family life? There will be more unhappiness whenever things cropped up because they cannot deal with thier emotional barrier. With this barrier, how can we love one another more freely? because by nature, the more we are hurt, we will refrain from loving and communicating with people even more.
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